Reclaiming History? Or Re-framing Oswald?

  • Vincent Bugliosi's massive tome on the JFK assassination purports to be a "comprehensive and fair evaluation of the entire case.....The theorists may not agree with my conclusions, but in this work on the assassination I intend to set forth all of their main arguments, and the way they, not I, want them to be set forth, before I seek to demonstrate their invalidity. I will not knowingly omit or distort anything."

    We beg to differ. Judge for yourself.

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October 16, 2007

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Comments

Brian and Beth

I have been wondering when the excellent Professor Wrone---with his unparalleled knowledge of the evidentiary base--- would publish an assessment of Mr. Bugliosi's book.

I have not been disappointed.

This is nothing less than a superb demolition of thesis advanced in book by Vincent Bugliosi.

Great job, Dr. Wrone.

 Raymond Carroll

QUESTION: Northbound Bus on Beckley St.

Greetings, Dr. Wrone. We chatted at the Duquesne conference and I enjoyed your review of Reclaiming History:

In your article you say:

" At 1:04 p.m., she stated and attested, he stood at the bus stop ... where he could catch a bus going north. [6]

The official record avoids presenting any information on the schedule and route the northbound bus took .... But after going north the bus route turned and ultimately passed the Texas Theatre.

Furbishing the logic of the bus stop wait, we recall that Oswald told Captain Will Fritz of the DPD during interrogation that after he left his room he went to the movies. [7]

Relevant Footnotes:
[6]. E. Roberts, affidavit, 7H439; Secret Service interview E. Roberts, and sketch of her sighting scene, SAIC Sorrels to Insp. Kelley, June 10, 1964, CO 2-34, 030.

[7]. R601.

I had never read or heard before that the Northbound bus actually swung south.

Is this a recent discovery? What Is the primary source of the bus route? surely not secret service reports? Finally, are these sources online?

Thank you.

Ray

Rex Bradford

This comment was written by David Wrone, author of the piece, in response to Ray Carroll's comment:

Dear Raymond Carroll:

Thank you for your thoughtful comment on my remarks. I recall our conversation in 04.

Maybe 35 years ago I spoke with Penn Jones, Jr., about this and in the 1980s several times spoke with Harold Weisberg about this incident.

Both told me of the bus being north bound on the rooming house side of the street where Roberts placed him. THE SS documents confirm this.

These are my sources as well as some desultory comments by names unrecalled of general folk in Dallas years ago.

I just assumed this was more or less common knowledge and have never given it much critical thought.

That it ultimately swung past the theatre was also told to me by P and W. These are my sources for that. I had no reason to doubt them, one was from the critic theory base, a short stature retired General Penn in his cowboy boots and hat and explicit language and fear of no man; and one a critic from the anti-theory group, Harold quiet at home in 30 year old shirts and a bum leg, submerged in documents and issues, and as honest an individual as I have ever met. Both were calm and clear when they spoke of it.

But that Oswald was standing at a north bound stop at !:04 certainly should have been considered by Bugliosi in his little adventure and not hidden, which the deed in the very reverse of sound history.

I know of no records; like so many points in the case I assume the officials did not want to open a can of worms that could destroy their set piece about Oswald. I should say at least for the north bound bus I have never seen or heard of any records.

Regards

David Wrone.

 Raymond Carroll

Thank you, Dr. Wrone. Even at this late date it should be possible to confirm the destination of all buses that stopped at that particular bus stop, and I promise to make further inquiry.

"But that Oswald was standing at a north bound stop at 1:04 certainly should have been considered by Bugliosi.."

Indeed it should, but as you and others here have noted, avoidance is one of Mr. B's favorite techniques when confronted with evidence that tends to contradict his theories.

Ray

Ed J

Oswald didn't kill Tippit? Are you for real, Mr. Wrone?

When Oswald was approached in the theater he said, "Well, it's all over now" - struck the officer in the face and pulled his loaded revolver(the revolver which turned out to be the Tippit murder weapon).

If the police approached you and you were innocent of any crime would you do any of the above? Not a chance.

And by the way, what the heck was Oswald doing in the movie theater? One of the most monumental crimes in the history of the world had just been committed at his workplace and he decided to go to the MOVIES? Is it rational to believe that?

Martin Hay

Professor Wrone

Great piece, It's most enjoyable seeing how a professional historian deals with a man like Bugliosi. I think it's clear than "Bugs" was more interested in "prosecuting" Oswald than discovering the truth. One has to wonder, if 70 to 80 percent of Americans believe a conspiracy existed in the Kennedy assassination, just who exactly is he "reclaiming history" from? The people?

Anyway, I wanted to ask a question. In your article you write:

"The actual evidence we now know shows two shots hit JFK in the head at Zapruder frames, 312/313, one from the front and one from the back, with severely fragmenting, soft metallic content whose gases and physical reactions exploded the skull at Z337-339 blowing out the rear of the head."

I seem to recall that in your Zapruder Film book you asserted that JFK was hit by only one shot - from the grassy knoll - and that the back of the head was entirely intact. I would guess this means that you have now changed your mind? I would be very interested to know what it was that altered your opinion.

Hope to hear from you,

Martin Hay
mnhay27@hotmail.com

 Raymond Carroll

The Northbound bus on Beckley is discussed in this thread on the Lancer Forum.
http://www.jfklancerforum.com/dc/dcboard.php

It does appear that Penn Jones was mistaken in this instance and that any northbound bus on Beckley was headed into downtown Dallas.

Gator

Obviously all the information coming out about Oswald working for the FBI, Bugliosi seems to miss that point. I don't know if it's the truth Oswald said "well, it's all over." Do you expect me to believe the 20 officers that didn't even know who he was, descending down on the Theater as to being a truthful statement that he made ? I'd rather look for tooth fairies.

Ryan Post

If we know that Oswald's gun was the one that killed Tippit, to the exclusion of all other guns, that said gun was in his possession when he was arrested, and that several witnesses were able to place Oswald at the scene of the crime and later identify him in a line-up, what possible explanation can there be?

Richard Van Noord

First, the slugs pulled from Tippit's body do NOT match the shells in evidence. The shells found at the scene were marked by DPD Officer Poe, a typical chain of evidence procedure. None of the shells in evidence has his markings. None of the slugs has been positively identified as coming from Oswald's gun, the same gun that had a misaligned firing pin in the theatre and was unable to discharge, but supposedly discharged perfectly at the Tippit scene.
The shells at the scene were identified over police radio as .38 AUTO shells, Oswald had a .38 six shot revolver.
Benevidas, only after a death threat and over a month later, identified Oswald, but never did that day. Markham's testimony has been totally discredited. It has changed many, many times. Read her WC testimony. It wouldn't convince a die hard WC defender of Oswald's guilt. Other than that, who saw him kill Tippit? Why don't the fingerprints on the interior Police Cruiser door match Oswald's when witnesses said the assailant leaned into the car? If Oswald was in a hurry to get away, why, after three shots, did he kill Tippit execution style with no regard for getting away?
Your assumptions are just that, assumptions with no factual base. The case against Oswald in the Tippit slaying is sadly lacking.

Ryan Post

(Reply to the previous comment)

Typical conspiracist tactic. Throw out a bunch of regurgitated deceptions, mistatements, baseless claims (such as Benavides receiving a death threat...where's your source?) and half-truths and hope it sticks. It would take over a half an hour to type a complete rebuttal of all the statements you just made. So instead, I'll just defer to Mr. Bugliosi. Read his book.

By the way, make sure you check out the WC's interviews with Mark Lane specifically as it relates to his contact with Helen Markham. It's a great example of the type of deception that almost the entire conspiracy movement is built upon.

Rex Bradford

Well, I am all for precision too. I'm not aware of a "death threat" to Domingo Benavides per se, unless one wants to count the murder by gunshot of his brother Eddy in February 1964, a little more than a month before Domingo's WC testimony on April 2. Even Gerald Posner in Case Closed (p. 494) acknowledges Eddy's murder. See also Accessories After the Fact (p. 299). Tippit witness Warren Reynolds was also shot in the head, but he survived and subsequently decided to change his mind and finger Oswald as the man he saw. But the man picked up for the Reynold's shooting had an alibi, given by his girlfriend, who was shortly picked up herself by police and found hung in her jail cell, thus making the alibi "airtight". Many such stories are quite true, but left under-investigated by authorities, thus allowing some people to ignore them and say "well, there's no proof they had anything to do with anything." The legacy of the total failure of the govt. to honestly investigate the assassination has left us in this state where it's possible for people who look at the case to completely talk past each other.

Ryan Post

Edward Benavides was shot by a drinking companion who later confessed to the murder and served 20 months in jail on manslaughter.

If we're going to discuss all these claims you guys are bringing up, let's take them one by one instead of throwing them out there all at one time, because I don't have enough time in one sitting to address all of them.

Ed J

Mr. Wrone,
I notice you still haven't answered my question above. Why was Oswald in the movie theater?

Brian

The problem with reading Mr. Bugliosi's book is that you don't get very far into it when you get sick and tired of his negative tone toward decent people.

And, it was disappointing to read his all too brief consideration of the importance of Dr. Joseph Dolce, the consultant to the Warren Commission who disproved the single bullet theory before it was fully formulated.

Richard Van Noord

To Ryan Post:

So what exactly are the regurgitated deceptions and misstatements? Please let me know and I will address them individually.

Peter L. Winkler

"None of the slugs has been positively identified as coming from Oswald's gun, the same gun that had a misaligned firing pin in the theatre and was unable to discharge, but supposedly discharged perfectly at the Tippit scene."

Why does Oswald leave his workplace, return to his room to recover his pistol and then go to a movie theater?

Brian

Professor Wrone has an excellent letter in the latest issue of the The Chronicle Review, identifying some of the major errors of fact in David Kaiser's recent article in The Chronicle of Higher Education's journal for March 28, 2008.
Kaiser's article was entitled "New Insights Into Kennedy's Assassination" and he posited a conspiracy involving anti Castro Cubans, the mob and Oswald as the shooter.
In Dr. Wrone's letter he highlights the errors in Professor Kaiser's ideas pointing out that there is no evidence linking Oswald to the shooting.

T Williams

Professor Wrone,
I have read many books about the JFK assassination and am convinced, without a doubt, that Lee Harvey Oswald accomplished something that he dreamed about for a long time. His hope to one day "be somebody famous." He got his wish and changed the course of history with a decision that took seconds to accomplish.
Here we are 45 years later still discussing an event that has long been resolved. The only people that continue to rehash the assassination are those people that have lost all contact with reality, haven't read the facts, don't have a life, or are enjoying the cash payouts from promoting such trash as a conspiracy theories (like you).
A friend of mine (AE) told me that he saw someone shooting from the window of the depository and continued to watch him until he left the window area. He did run to find a police man to tell him of his observation and said he wasn't sure what this guy looked like but was sure that he was firing a rifle because he saw the smoke and heard the gunshot noise. For weeks he had nighmares and was scared to go outside thinking that someone would get him. One thing for sure was that he saw someone, and was not the only one that did. No one standing near the grassy knoll or any other place in Dealey Plaza could identify anyone else shooting at the motorcade. So how does conspiracy come from speculation and not fact? In 45 years NO ONE has identified another person, with proof, that anyone else was firing bullets in Dealey. The reason is obvious, only person was shooting and he was standing on the 6th floor, left his place of employment to take in a movie. Case Closed. Find another line of work. Or by the way, what are you a professor of? I hope that your students temper your lectures with a grain of salt. How can they be sure what you saying is really fact?

David Emerling

Bugliosi's book is a detailed and accurate account of the events surrounding the Kennedy assassination that is based on both common sense and the evidence - with none of the outrageous speculation that characterizes nearly all conspiracy theories. Yet, the Kennedy assassination is a very polarizing topic that elicits tremendous emotions for many people. For some inexplicable reason the proponents of conspiracy always produce a top-of-the-lung scream whenever anybody dares attempts to debunk any conspiracy, even if it is not the conspiracy to which they, personally, subscribe. One thing is certain, whether you believe Oswald acted alone or not: All these conspiracy theories are mutually exclusive, meaning, that, by definition, most of them MUST be wrong. To quote Dale Meyers (the animation expert who created a brilliant recreation), "This thing happened only ONE way."

Mary Tracy

"Sometimes people sort of glaze over about the notion that the Mafia and U.S. intelligence and the anti-Castro activists were involved together in the assassination of President Kennedy. In fact, there's no contradiction there. Those three groups were all in bed together at the time and had been for several years in the fight to topple Fidel Castro." --Anthony Summers, journalist and assassination researcher, interviewed by Bill Curtis for the cable TV program, Investigative Reports, September 1991

"In retrospect, the reason for the assassination is hardly a mystery. It is now abundantly clear ... why the C.I.A.'s covert operations element wanted John Kennedy out of the Oval Office and Lyndon Johnson in it. The new President elevated by rifle fire to control of our foreign policy had been one of the most enthusiastic American cold warriors.... Johnson had originally risen to power on the crest of the fulminating anti-communist crusade which marked American politics after World War II. Shortly after the end of that war, he declaimed that atomic power had become 'ours to use, either to Christianize the world or pulverize it' -- a Christian benediction if ever there was one. Johnson's demonstrated enthusiasm for American military intervention abroad ... earned him the sobriquet 'the senator from the Pentagon....'"
--Jim Garrison, On the Trail of the Assassins

אהרוני ליסינג

I have been wondering to read such nice and informative post shared by you regarding Vincent Bugliosi. Thank you for sharing this information here.

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Informative and great book as a whole can only estimate the total number of inventions, an incredibly high.

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